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Up Topic Open Technical Section / C1 Technical Chat / who has the diagnostic tool?
- - By C1200 Date 16-12-2008 23:49
Where is the C mon at present? I have a problem with non starting and altho it(or something didnt like my electrics last time) would like to give it another try maybe
Parent - - By Clunkfish Date 17-12-2008 11:45

>would like to give it another try


Blimey Al, I thought you said something about taking an angle grinder to it last time  ;-)
Parent - - By C1200 Date 17-12-2008 18:40 Edited 17-12-2008 18:55
Desperate measures here..or its a recovery truck to clarkes for a diagnostic checkover and a one thousand pound bill after! really want to take an angle grinder to my bloody bike at the moment..last week it wouldnt tickover or accelerate w/out stammering.Took the engine out and valves are all in tolerance.Put it back in and no startey..Fired it up this morning and it actually ran,then when I lifted the stand up the revs really rose up,so put the stand down and it reverted to a stammery tickover then expired and no matter what I do it wont even fire.New plug/air/fuel filter and a good strong spark and injector is squirting..but not sure if its doing the bit inside under pressure or could be ecu but thatwas replaced last year!!  Then when it caught fire twice last night after petrol dripped on the engine I should have let it go up,if it wasnt in the garage with the others I would have..........
Parent - - By Clunkfish Date 17-12-2008 19:00
Sorry to hear that Al - hope you can sort it. The C'Mon is I think with Brianday but he hasn't been on the site since late October and has not replied to my messages about getting it to the next in line :-(

After Brian it's Toby_Holland, who was last on a couple of weeks ago. Toby, if you're there, have you got the C'Mon?
Parent - - By backload Date 17-12-2008 20:22
I know this was discussed not too long ago BUT it looks as though we're getting to see deja vu all over again.

No one is saying the tool is lost forever, nor that it will be delayed in being returned but under the current system there is very little incentive to pass the tools back when received. This means there is currently no certainty for the guys at the back of the queue getting the tool in the next year. Realistically; the longer the wait the longer it will be acceptable to keep the tool and therefore the likely delay in return; welcome to the infinite loop.

As the annual subs are now suspended next year - perhaps a deposit system for the club stuff is now in order?

This is the proven model to keep people returning stuff in a lending system and if you want to speed up the cycle of returns you have a time limit and a small penalty every week if the loan period is exceeded. Video Rentals work on this basis and your local lending library has been doing it just this way for over 100 years.... Also, it is possible to be flexible about the timeframe the loan is made for and the deposit similarly but the only point is to create transparency for each member as they join the queue to get the unit.

IMHO of course.....And yes, I recognise there is a bit of work in implementing such a system but it is infinitely less than the frustration of having to follow up each time a person borrows the kit. :)
Parent - - By Clunkfish Date 17-12-2008 22:20

>there is a bit of work in implementing such a system but it is infinitely less than the frustration of having to follow up each time a person borrows the kit


Actually I think it is more work, and I'm reluctant for that reason. I am really fed up with keep having to hassle members for the return of these things, but if I had to hassle them and take in/repay deposits I would go completely postal :-)

We do need some way to keep people on their toes though. I personally would consider it unconscionable to borrow a C1ub resource then just hang on to it, and maybe its current custodian has a perfectly good reason, but it doesn't half drive me up the wall when a shared item is hogged :-(
Parent - - By backload Date 17-12-2008 22:43

> I am really fed up with keep having to hassle members for the return of these things, but if I had to hassle them and take in/repay deposits I would go completely postal :-)


At the risk of seeming to keep going at the same point - surely there is more than one person in the committee? Next year there will be no subs at all. A lending system as I outlined  involves a 2 separate units and therefore, at say, a 14 day turnaround (which is probably blisteringly fast if it is snowing and you've no garage) - it means there maybe 4/5 transactions a month.

As it currently stands you avoid a regular but low load of dull stuff. This is two weekly transactions only to add the surely more stressful, and unscheduable additional tasks of having to contact people; hassle them (well, maybe not hassle) but "make enquiries". I'd prefer two impersonal paypal transactions over having to make ANY NUMBER of phone calls any time. Maybe that's just me, and you probably enjoy the banter..... :)

>I personally would consider it unconscionable to borrow a C1ub resource then just hang on to it, and maybe its current custodian has a perfectly good reason, but it doesn't half drive me up the wall when a shared item is hogged :-(


That is EXACTLY my sentiment - even though I don't want this tool; it would be nice to know if I did, I would know when I could actually get it. :)
Parent - - By Clunkfish Date 17-12-2008 23:55
I do see the force of the argument but perhaps it comes down to personal preference. I would prefer not to have the scheduled task of hassling geezer A to send said item to geezer B, checking whether geezer B's got it, returning geezer A's deposit, banking geezer B's deposit, then 2 weeks later repeating the process. At the moment I can fit the hassling around other things - coupla minutes downtime, do a bit of hassling: busy as a one-armed taxi driver with crabs, hassling gets left for a while....

It looks to me like it should be part of the treasurer's job as it would involve funds, and as you say there will be little to do funds-wise between Feb 1st and Dec 31st next year, but I have to confess I have little appetite for it. I'm not proud of that, just under the gun at work and not looking for more stuff to do :-(

I can't think of a better solution though.
Parent - - By backload Date 18-12-2008 09:00 Edited 18-12-2008 09:04

> It looks to me like it should be part of the treasurer's job as it would involve funds,


Now this is a probably a loaded question but I think, therefore given the thrust of this thread a fair one - How many of the elected few are actually doing their functions in the committee at the moment? When it was just me and Clunk years back we were quite open about the paucity of hands on the committee pump.

It doesn't have to be very hard work for the committee as there is a self regulating version: it is based on the principle of holding a large lump of cash as a deposit; this only begins when the first borrower sends in his deposit to the treasurer. The next guy borrowing refunds the lump sum to the first guy who sent his money to the treasurer, ie the second borrower sends his deposit to the first borrower who has just used the tool and that is how borrower 1 gets his deposit refunded. To get the tool the borrower 2 has to pay borrower 1, and borrower 1 must relinquish the tool to borrower 2 to get his money back. This should all go great until the last person borrowing needs his money back and the tool finally returns to the treasurer who sends back the deposit. OK it won't always speed up the process of circulation but it should give an incentive.

We now have two members hassling each other and therefore not the treasurer; borrower 1 wants his deposit back while borrower 2 wants the tool. Seems pretty much perfectly balanced and self policed process.....
Parent - - By Andrew Date 18-12-2008 09:17
Could I make a suggestion that a public list of who has had the tool and who currently has it be published on the site? The last dated person on the list is responsible for using it and passing it on within a period of 2 weeks. They must also update the list with the date they sent it on. People could also add their names to the list if they want the tool, but without the date filled in. Then when it's passed to them the previous person fills in the date. Then it also acts as a waiting list.

The list would be 2 simple columns: the first column would be "Past/Present/Future holders", the second column would be "Date passed on the next holder". I'm sure the next holder will soon shout up if they don't receive it within 3 days, so it is self managing.

In this way we will keep some kind of pressure on ourselves to keep it moving, because everyone will know who's got it. It won't prevent people going awol with it, but at least there is no great financial or management input required.
Parent - By backload Date 18-12-2008 09:32

> I'm sure the next holder will soon shout up if they don't receive it within 3 days, so it is self managing.


Peer pressure is great and this will work with members who regularly log on. However, as is the current and previous cases - the people don't regularly participate in the club, forum or any C1 area clearly and demonstrably don't feel any pressure unless calls are made so I think an additional incentive is needed.
Parent - By Clunkfish Date 18-12-2008 10:15 Edited 18-12-2008 10:20

>a public list of who has had the tool and who currently has it


It's there, stickied at the top of this board. I edit it when the tool changes hands which unfortunately means it doesn't show up if you use the "New Posts" option to read the forum. I guess I ought to delete it and re-post it when there are changes, as that would put it on everyone's radar. In fact, I'll do that right now :-)
Parent - - By Clunkfish Date 18-12-2008 10:12
I can see the sense of Backload's idea of the refund being given by the next in the queue once they receive the unit, but I do worry about the possible consequences if someone breaks the chain.

Suppose geezer A puts £200/250 euro in the C1ub pot when he receives the tool. If he delays sending it to geezer B until geezer B has sent him £200, then geezer B has neither tool nor money and is hoping for the best. If geezer A sends it to geezer B before receiving the money, then geezer A has neither tool nor money and he is hoping for the best. If the deposit is set lower than this, then keeping the tool and losing your deposit is a cheap way of buying the tool.

In other words, it still depends absolutely on trust but instead of all that trust having to be invested in one person - yours truly - now everyone in the system would have to trust the next person in the chain, whether they felt comfortable with that or not. For those reasons, I think it would be safer for the deposit system to be administered by one person who is accountable to the C1ub through the committee. I'd be prepared to do it (some of the pressure is off now that the Research Assessment Exercise is out: http://www.rae.ac.uk :-) ), but also would be very happy if someone would like to take the task on....any volunteers?
Parent - - By backload Date 18-12-2008 13:12

> then geezer B has neither tool nor money and is hoping for the best.


Multi-million dollar businesses work just great precisely on this basis: Ebay for example.

You're just planning to get a permanent job here, right? :)
Parent - By Clunkfish Date 18-12-2008 13:18

>You're just planning to get a permanent job here, right?


Make me an offer :-)
Parent - By Drynotwet Date 18-12-2008 13:27
My suggestion:
1 A £200(or replacement cost) deposit is paid to the Club, by Paypal, by the person (member1) who wants to borrow the C'Mon
2 The C'Mon is sent to member1 by INSURED POST.
3 Member1 uses it, then posts he is finished.
4 Member2 paypals a £200 deposit to the club
5 The Club advises member1 that the deposit is received, and member1 sends the C'Mon BY INSURED POST to Member2
6 Member2 receives the C'Mon and advises the Club.
7 The club refunds member1's deposit. Provided this is done inside 1 month, PayPal refunds the transaction fees too.
8 repeat

Cost to each member for borrowing unit is cost of insured postage. Insured postage is needed as
1 it is a valuable item and the PO is NOT foolproof
2 it prevents anyone saying "I sent it and I want my refund" and keeping the tool and their cash (Don't take it personally)

If it isn't delivered, the PO pays up. Everyone gets their money back and the tool can be rebought.

If the member keeps it longer than 1 month, they are responsible for the paypal fees (so would get back, say, £192)

If the member keeps it longer than 6 weeks, they are told they have bought it. The club keps the deposit and buys another one.

IMHO.
Parent - By toby_holland Date 18-12-2008 06:46
good morning all
yes, still alive & kicking [almost!]
have been enjoying nearly a MONTH with no need for maintenance/repair on the C1 ! :-) ..............bet i've spoken too soon now...............but, seriously, this is my first proper winter on the C1, and i still marvel at the comfort, warmth, security etc etc.......beats my normal 'naked' Suzuki at this time of year, and means i can keep that tucked up in cotton wool over winter, and still stay on 2 wheels.
had to fit a pair of small additional lamps on the front, linked to main beam, as the standard dip was dead poor - i found that the top surface of the reflector was fading away, so perhaps further repairs are looming again.............
hope Brianday finds his local postoffice relatively soon......... :-)
Have a Great Christmas one & all, and a Merry New Year
Toby
Parent - By Drynotwet Date 18-12-2008 13:29 Edited 18-12-2008 13:32
Has anyone looked up a telephone number for Brian Day, and tried ringing him?

Is there a record of his address, so a letter can be sent to him?
Clunkfish he sa....."Hi Brian, no worries I'll send the C'Mon over to you. You're in Caistor St Edmund, right"
Amyone near Caistor St Edmund? Do you still have his address Clunky?
Parent - - By superted Date 17-12-2008 19:17
Wanna borrow mine Al? If you PM your address (I've forgotten it!) I'll pop it in the post
Parent - - By jp72 Date 17-12-2008 19:42
Hey, I thought 2 units were enough for the C1ub ! In france we usually say there no 2 without a 3 following :)
Parent - - By jrw Date 18-12-2008 10:04
We are up to 4 at least - as well as the 2 C1ub ones there is Superted's and mine. All of which get used on multiple C1s
Parent - By Mad_Accountant Date 18-12-2008 11:21
What's a C1? :-(
Parent - By C1200 Date 17-12-2008 21:08
Sure doo mate!! :-)
Parent - By jp72 Date 17-12-2008 19:43
Have you tried to cleanup the idle regulator ?
Parent - - By C1200 Date 18-12-2008 16:42 Edited 18-12-2008 16:45
Well..Took the engine out again today and took it back to have the valve timing re checked and all is as it should be.Brought it home and refitted the engine this afternoon,then reconnected everything up and squirted wd40 in the inlet just to get it to start,which it did.Then after that was used up it stopped.Tried it again and since then has run perfectly well....I just dont understand what has been ailing it.but all is well at the moment!
Parent - - By jrw Date 18-12-2008 17:29
Air bubbles in fuel line?
Parent - By C1200 Date 18-12-2008 21:11
just no idea
Parent - - By brianday Date 18-12-2008 14:44 Edited 19-12-2008 09:41
Sorry guys
long story - dead hard disk drive and Father in Law illness - now brought him to live with us - kept me busy "baby" sitting
Just got email back up today and see I have caused a stir, also all my messages have been deleted so I can't see any addresses
I had been trying to diagnose problems on my second - non functional C1 but task may be too big/too hard for me
I will post it tomorrow

where shall I send it
sorry again

Brian Day
Norwich
Parent - - By Clunkfish Date 18-12-2008 18:29
Hi Brian, sorry to hear of your troubles but glad you're back in touch. Next recipient is Toby_Holland - I'll PM the address to you right now. Please could you send it by a method that includes at least £200 of insurance.
Parent - - By toby_holland Date 19-12-2008 07:56
hello brianday & clunkfish et al,
i see that postage on the C'mon is pending - if it hasn't already left, i would like to propose that i drop 1 place on the list - i am away on sunday for 3 weeks, taking the missus back home to Hungary for some treatment for her Rheumatoid Arthritis troubles.
as i wont see it til i get back to work on the 12th of Jan, then will need to make time whilst catching up, it would seem sensible if it bypasses me today for whoever is after me, then comes to me after that.................if that is possible & doesnt wrinkle too many noses............................................unless it has already set off my way, in which case may i apologise in advance for a small delay in sending it on to the next on the list...................................................
have a great Xmas & New Year everybody
Toby
Parent - - By brianday Date 29-12-2008 11:44
Didn't see Toby's message before it went off
so it will be waiting for him on his return
Parent - By toby_holland Date 18-01-2009 12:58
thankyou, it was waiting for me, and i have set aside this monday for using it, so tuesday hopefully it should be available for onward posting.
happy motoring!
Toby
Parent - By Drynotwet Date 18-12-2008 23:20
Funny thing is I had a similar problem recently, and wondered if that might be the problem-amazing how many contact details you never realise you didn't keep copies of exist on your pc until you have a problem.
I suggest you remove your contact details from the site, and just PM them if/when they are Needed
Hope your situation imroves
Dnw 
Up Topic Open Technical Section / C1 Technical Chat / who has the diagnostic tool?

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